How does the following quotation apply to A Separate Peace and to the world around us? Use textual evidence to support your answer.
The remarkable thing is that we really love our neighbor as ourselves:
We do unto others as we do unto ourselves. We hate others when we
hate ourselves. We are tolerant toward others when we tolerate our-
selves. We forgive others when we forgive ourselves. It is not love
of self but hatred of self which is at the root of the troubles that afflict
our world.
--Eric Hoffer
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Love thy neighbor as thyself applies to A Seperate Peace because as Gene's self-esteem progressively lowers, his hate for his best friend increases. So as Gene's love himself becomes absent , his love for his neighbor, Phineas, correspondingly disappears. In the 4th Chapter, Gene "realizes" that Phineas has been sabatoging his chances of becoming valectadorian by distracting him with other activities. Right after Gene's realization his "misery [is] too deep to speak anymore." (Knowles 53)This reveals Gene's loss of love for himself. On the same page, Gene goes deep into thought about his relationship with Phineas and in his mind he thinks that "You and Phineas are even already. You are even in enmity. You are both coldly driving ahead for yourselves alone. You did hate him for breaking that school swimming record, but so what? He hated you for getting an A in every course but one last term." (Knowles 53) This quote blatantly reveals Gene's hate for Phineas. Love thyself as thy neighbor applies to the world because, if you don't love yourself, its impossible to love someone else.
My question is:
How do Gene and Phineas differ in the way their personalities apply to the statement, love thyself as thy neighbor?
In “A Separate Peace”, Gene breaks his best friend, Finny's, leg. When Finny is unable to play sports because of this injury, Gene feels as if it is his entire fault. When Finny says to Gene, “‘Listen, pal, if I can’t play sports, you’re going to play them for me,' [Gene] lost part of [him] self to [Finny] and a soaring sense of freedom revealed that this must have been [Gene's] purpose from the first: to become a part of Phineas." (Golding 77). This shows how he would become a part of Finny and if Finny is in pain, so is Gene. In today's society, I feel like this quote doesn’t exactly relate. If a NFL football player breaks his leg and is never able to play again, a fan doesn’t think about how hard it will be for him to recuperate and start a new life. They are only thinking of who will replace him to have an outcome of victory.
My Question is: If “A Separate Peace” had been narrated by a different character, how would it have changed?
In Responce to Maryann's comment: Phinneas is the more forgiving one, who doesn't hold grudges. On the other had, Gene beats him self up for hurting Finny and will never let it go. Gene will never love himself as much as he loves Finny because of what he did to Finny. However, Finny will always love Gene the same.
Love thy neighbor is a quotation applying to A Separate Peace by Gene feeling concerned about his own attitude toward his best friend, Finny. Everyone has a moment in history which belongs particularly to him. It is the moment when his emotions achieve their most “powerful sway over him...The world, through his unleashed emotions, imprinted itself upon him, and he carries the stamp of that passing moment forever" (Knowles 32). This statement is true for all because in one's adolescence one is at their most vulnerable to being taken over by their emotions, such as Gene in the novel. As we see in the beginning of the book the narrator Gene experiences what it feels to be back at Devon and realizes his problems and the true person he is inside. Gene was punishing himself just as he was to Finny. In a Separate Peace Gene accepts Finny as his best friend and yet was jealous of him.
To answer Haley's question:
If “A Separate Peace” had been narrated by a different character it would changed by the character personalities and by the different perspectives of ideas.
My question is:
What would happen if “A Separate Peace” was written from a female’s point of view?
While relating this quote to "A Separate Peace" and to the world around us, Love Thy Neighbor is an example of Gene and Phineas's relationship. Referring to the second line of the quote, it states "we hate others when we hate ourselves." Throughout this novel, Gene is the character who is jealous of phineas's athletic abilites and his excellent style of always being able to get our of bad situations without any harm. This ability makes Gene "fire a flash of green across the room" (Knowles 14). As Phineas is able to do this wonderful act, Gene is not. Gene hates how he can't be like Phineas therefor, he starts hating Phineas as a whole. Throughout "Love Thy Neighbor," each line represented a time Gene and Phineas had experienced at Devon School together. Although this quote definately represented the novel, it also represents the world and the everday life that surrounds us. Everybody envies someone at least once in thier lives and it all goes back to this quote. People hate others when they hate themselves and when they like people, they are tolerant just like how they are tolerant towards themself. To answer Judy's question, if the novel was actually written by a female, this would have probably happened sooner. Jealousy is a huge factor for anybody, but sometimes jealousy can get in the way of accomplishments. For many females, controlling jealousy may be harder than other males.
My question is: If the narrator changes from Gene to Leper, do you think this quote will be able to represent the novel?
*out
instead of "our"
* therefore
instead of "therefor"
*everyday
instead of "everday"
*life
instead of "lives"
The quotation by Eric Hoffer can be applied to A Separate Peace and to the world around us in many ways. If we think about it, this quote empahsizes the idea of man's narcissistic or self-centered ways. We care about our own selves and this is reflected in the ways in which we act towards other people. There are some people out there who truly do care, just like Phinny in A Separate Peace; however, most people tend to put themselves before anyone else. One example of this could be when someone is having a bad day. Normally, when we feel like this, our actions and way of talking is hostile towards the people around us. In a way, we take it out on other people. If we feel upset, we just don't go up to people and act like nothing is wrong with us. Then, when WE begin to feel right, we are ready to forgive others of our inappropriate actions. If we are content with our own actions, then only will we be content with those around us. Another example of this could be when Gene visits Phinny at Phinny's home in Boston. The following is an excerpt from page 62 of A Separate Peace:
"I jounced the limb. I caused it." One more sentence. "I deliberately jounced the limb so you would fall." He looked older than I had ever seen him. "Of course you didn't." "Yes I did. I did!" "Of course you didn't do it. You damn fool. Sit down, you damn fool." "Of course I did!" "I'm going to hit you if you don't sit down." "Hit me!" I looked at him. "Hit me! You can't even get up! You can't even come near me!" "I'll kill you if you don't shut up." "You see! Kill me! Now you know what it is! I did it because I felt like that! Now you know yourself (Knowles62)!"
Here, the reader can understand that Gene feels guilty and is upset with himself. This is why he is upset with Phinny, thus enforcing the idea revealed by Hoffer. It is ironic because Gene is trying to apologize to Phinny by letting the truth out, but instead causes more strife. The last statement made by Gene also helps with Hoffer's theme. Gene felt upset with himself. As he saw Phinny's excellence, he began to envy and hate him. He thought of how everyone liked Phinny and how charming Phinny was. This probably caused Gene to feel low about himself. This is why Gene jouced the limb to make Phineas fall. He "felt like that" because of his inability to compare to Phinny (Knowles 62). This shows that Gene hated himself from the beginning, thus causing his hatred towards Phinny, the cause of this hate.
In response to Judy M., if A Separate Peace was written from a female's point of view, then things would be different, especially since all the characters in the novel are boys. If written from a female's perspective, then the novel would probably take place in an all girls school or a mix of the two. The military would not have been a part of the novel since women were not recruited into the army during this time period. War would not have been a MAJOR part of the novel also because women did not have to worry much about what would happen. Thus, the whole war motif would have been gone, taking away the parallel between the war in the protagonist's internal life and the real war that is fought in Europe.
Question: How does living in a fantasy correlate to living with innocence?
After reading the quote “Love thy Neighbor”, I think the way it applies to A Separate Peace is how the loss of self-esteem increases and this is shown in chapter 3 to 4. Show’s how Gene hated the Suicide Society but still went and by secretly hating it he hated himself for it and Finny too. Now to the world is alike the bible we would not like to be mistreated so we treat others how we would like to be treated. Alike both human and the book ASP we make mistakes and mistakes are human so we still hate ourselves this meaning we hate others as well. Now answering Haley’s Question: it be very different because it be a different point of view and he/she would not admit so much of his/her mistakes because he/she will be talking about Finny and Gene or even themselves and how they would have done this or wouldn’t have.
My Question is: Do you think Gene is truly sorry about what happened to Finny? Explain why or why not
After reading this quote, I could not help but thinking this is the same way Gene acts toward Phineas.
Gene hates Phineas because Phineas is good at sports and can get away with anything. Before Gene destroys that by pushing Phineas making him tumble"...sideways, broke [breaking] through the little branches below and hit [ting] the bank with a sickening, unnatural thud." (Knowles 60) Gene was supposed to be studying and Phineas says "'If I need to study, then so do you."'(Knowles 58) which shows that both Phineas and Gene are connected, though Gene hates Phineas.
In Response to Nazareth L.:
I think Gene is not sorry, because Gene is selfish. Phineas was like Gene's addiction the more he spent time with Phineas the more Gene hated him.
My Question: How do you think World War II applies to "Love thy neighbor"?
I think that "Love thy neighbor" is a base of A Separate Peace and to the world around us for many reasons. First of all, When Hoofer states that "We are tolerant towards others when we tolerate ourselves," greatly connects to Gene toward many of the other characters of the book. In the beginning of the book, Finny's successful skills in sports gave Gene a sense of envy. When Gene could no longer tolerate the envy that he had toward Finny, he "jounced the limb" that Finny was standing on, causing him to fall. (Knowles 60). The envy that Gene had towards Finny makes him unable to tolerate not only his jealousy but also anyone else. Another example of Gene not being tolerant of a fellow peer is when he leaves Leper at his home. When Gene is talking to Leper and he sees how "crazy" he has gotten from being in war, he cannot stand to hear another word. He becomes intolerant with Leper and tells him to "Shut up" and that he "do[esn't] care what happened to [him]" (Knowles 151). For Gene to be so rude to a friend that just needed to talk shows that Gene could not with stand the problems that he was facing, therefore he took it out on Leper.
Another part of the Hoofer quote that relates to A Separate Peace is the part that explains that loving yourself is not what causes troubles in the world, but the hatred of self that causes the conflicts. This can relate to the view that Gene has on war. Gene believes that wars "[are] not made by generations and their stupidities, but that wars [are] made instead by something ignorant in the human heart" (Knowles 201). When hating yourself, ignorance can form with in you and when enough people in the world have ignorance and no sense of compassion or love for one another, war and other crimes break out. Both Hoofer and Gene agree that hatred of either yourself or towards others is the base to many of the problems in the world.
In Response to Alfred A:
I think that living in a fantasy and living with innocence is very similar to one another. Living in a fantasy, to me, is having no problems and not having to worry about anything that you don't want to. You don't have to worry about things that you typically would in reality. When someone lives in complete innocence, they have no sense on the problems or dangers that exist in the world.
My Question:
A Separate Peace and Lord of the Flies are fairly similar when analyzing, do you think that Love thy Neighbor can relate to Lord of the Flies as much as it does to A Separate Peace?
In A Separate Peace, Gene is so absorbed in his own personal conflicts, that he begins to find reasons to take them out on his best friend, Finny. Gene admits that he "did not cry even when [he] stood watching [Finny] being lowered into his family's strait-laced burial ground outside of Boston". He felt that he "could not escape a feeling that his was [his] own funeral, and you do not cry in that case" (Knowles 194). This shows that although Finny was a huge part of Gene's life, he realized that Finny would no longer be around to have any kind of positive influence. Gene saw Finny's every move as malevolence and as an attempt to make Gene look like a fool. However, throughout the novel a reader can see that Gene is fighting an internal war which causes him to unleash his frustrations on others. By causing the downfall of Finny, Gene felt that he would no longer have a so-called rival to emphasize his lesser characteristics. The quote applies to the real world because people commonly take out their problems on others, hoping it will relieve them of sadness, anger, or stress. Not everyone has the heart to treat others how they would like to be treated, and they don't see the how negatively it can affect a person. Therefore, they don't take into consideration of how they would feel if one were to reciprocate the action by being inconsiderate.
In response to Nazareth's question: I think Gene does feel some remorse for what he did to Finny, but he doesn't fully realize his own evil intentions. He continuously tries to convince himself that what he did was no big deal, although he truly did commit an act of evil by hurting Finny to rid himself of competition. If Gene were able to fully understand his own psychological issues, then he might feel more guilt knowing what he did was truly wrong.
Question: How do you think Finny would have reacted, had Gene told him the truth about the tree incident from the beginning? Explain your answer.
The quotation by Eric Hoffer can be applied to A Separate Peace and to the world around us in many ways. If we think about it, this quote empahsizes the idea of man's narcissistic or self-centered ways. We care about our own selves and this is reflected in the ways in which we act towards other people. There are some people out there who truly do care, just like Phinny in A Separate Peace; however, most people tend to put themselves before anyone else. One example of this could be when someone is having a bad day. Normally, when we feel like this, our actions and way of talking is hostile towards the people around us. In a way, we take it out on other people. If we feel upset, we just don't go up to people and act like nothing is wrong with us. Then, when WE begin to feel right, we are ready to forgive others of our inappropriate actions. If we are content with our own actions, then only will we be content with those around us. Another example of this could be when Gene visits Phinny at Phinny's home in Boston. The following is an excerpt from page 62 of A Separate Peace:
"I jounced the limb. I caused it." One more sentence. "I deliberately jounced the limb so you would fall." He looked older than I had ever seen him. "Of course you didn't." "Yes I did. I did!" "Of course you didn't do it. You damn fool. Sit down, you damn fool." "Of course I did!" "I'm going to hit you if you don't sit down." "Hit me!" I looked at him. "Hit me! You can't even get up! You can't even come near me!" "I'll kill you if you don't shut up." "You see! Kill me! Now you know what it is! I did it because I felt like that! Now you know yourself (Knowles62)!"
Here, the reader can understand that Gene feels guilty and is upset with himself. This is why he is upset with Phinny, thus enforcing the idea revealed by Hoffer. It is ironic because Gene is trying to apologize to Phinny by letting the truth out, but instead causes more strife. The last statement made by Gene also helps with Hoffer's theme. Gene felt upset with himself. As he saw Phinny's excellence, he began to envy and hate him. He thought of how everyone liked Phinny and how charming Phinny was. This probably caused Gene to feel low about himself. This is why Gene jouced the limb to make Phineas fall. He "felt like that" because of his inability to compare to Phinny (Knowles 62). This shows that Gene hated himself from the beginning, thus causing his hatred towards Phinny, the cause of this hate.
In response to Judy M., if A Separate Peace was written from a female's point of view, then things would be different, especially since all the characters in the novel are boys. If written from a female's perspective, then the novel would probably take place in an all girls school or a mix of the two. The military would not have been a part of the novel since women were not recruited into the army during this time period. War would not have been a MAJOR part of the novel also because women did not have to worry much about what would happen. Thus, the whole war motif would have been gone, taking away the parallel between the war in the protagonist's internal life and the real war that is fought in Europe.
Question: How does living in a fantasy correlate to living with innocence?
"love thy neighbor as you do unto yourself." In a seperate peace gene loves finny as he does himself.He starts to hate finny as a result hates himself.he realizes that phineas was trying to stop him from getting the first in class, as a result he pushes finny off the tree as a result ending his career of sports. Then only gene realized that what he speculated wasnt correct. He starts to wear finny's clothes because "he feels it as a part of him" which means he likes finny again and as a reult himself.
Answer to Maryann W.
finny always loves everyone as a neighbor and doesnt hate anyone which means he dosent hate himself.
gene on the other hand hates and likes finny, which means he likes and hates himself also.
After reading Eric Hoffer's quote, I concluded that everytime the word "We" is used, you can pertain that back to Gene. In A Separate Peace, Gene is extremely paranoid on how his grades are, and how is lifestyle is pursued. In the book, Gene "jounced the limb" (Golding 60), causing Finny to lose his balance, and stumble off the tree branch. Because of this, Gene feels a great amount of guilt throughout the novel, and at the time, didn't realize the gravity of his actions. Throughout the novel, Gene attempts to try and be contrite to Finny, but somehow finds difficulty in that. Although Gene isn't sure why it's such a hardship to complete this task, the quote by Hoffer explain it all. "We forgive others when we forgive ourselves" states that Gene never got over the the horrible accident that he caused torwards Finny. (Hoffer 7). In conclusion, this quote relates back to the theme of A Separate Peace; You must identify the true enemy withing yourself before blaming others for your personal problems.
To answer Jane's question, I think Finny would have forgiven Gene immediently. Their comaraderie had such a durable bond, their's no way that Finny would of held a long lasting grudge against Gene. Finny may have been shocked at first, but would of genuially forgiven his best friend.
My question: How do you believe the story would have been different if it was narrated in Finny's point of view? Do you think it would of distributed a more positive perspective of how things turned out? Why or why not?
"It is not love of self but hatred of self which is at the root of the troubles that afflict our world" applies to A Separate Peace because Gene is unhappy with himself. Since he cannot be like Phineas, he will do everything he can to make Phineas less than what he is. Gene was very narcissistic; "[His] war ended before [he] could put on a uniform; [he] was on active duty all [his] time at school; [he] killed [his] enemy there" (Golding 204). When one dislikes or hates them self, they end to show hatred towards others. The same goes to for the world we live in today. If someone is unhappy, then they will not be the smiling and making others have a good day. Generally when you one is not in a good mood, they do not feel the excitement from the others and do not show that they care or are concerned with anything going on around them.
To answer Judy's question, if A Separate Peace would have been written from a female's point of view, there would be a lot more drama. Bones would not have been broken and there would not have been tree climbing. There would probably be fights and people talking behind other peoples back. It would be more like different sororities living in the same place and not liking each other. It would be so much more drama.
My question is, do you think Gene's character would have lasted in The Lord of the Flies?
The narrator, Gene, is best friends with another character whose name is Finny. They have a very tight relationship with each other until one thought becomes present in Gene's mind. He realizes that Finny "had never been jealous of [him] for a second. Now [he] knew that there was and never could have been any rivalry between [them]. [He] was not of the same quality as [Finny]" (Knowles 59). An enemy atmosphere then creates itself between the two boys. Gene becomes too involved with himself to realize that he needs to treat Finny with more respect. Until he begins to treat himself with the respect other people deserve, he will not have a true relationship with anyone. As the two boys climb the tree, Gene "jounced the limb. Finny, his balance gone, swung his head around to look at [Gene]...and then he tumbled sideways, broke through the little branches below and hit the bank with a sickening, unnatural thud" (Knowles 60). Because Gene can not respect himself, he can not respect others. Due to this problem, he pushes his best friend out of the tree and causes him pain. As a result from this traumatic fall of Finny's, he is no longer able to play sports. In order to "love thy neighbor as ourselves" Gene must forgive himself by taking Finny's place in sports. With this taking place, Gene's hatred of self decreases and the troubles that afflict his life begin to dissipate.
Answer to Maryann's Question:
This statement applies to Gene in a sense that he needs to find himself before he can befriend anyone else truly. Finny already "knows" himself and therefore he can love thy neighbor as himself.
Question:
When applying this statement to A Separate Peace, what character from Lord of the Flies do Finny and Gene remind you of? Explain using textual evidence.
Love thy neighbor relates to the novel, “A Separate Peace” because it portrays the characters Gene and Finny throughout the novel. This quote perfectly represents Gene’s actions towards Finny. While Gene hates Finny because of Finny’s abundant talents and athletic abilities, he portrays his love towards his best friend. As an example in the beginning of the book, Finny's successful skills in sports gave Gene a sense of envy. When Gene could no longer tolerate the envy that he had toward Finny, he "jounced the limb" that Finny was standing on, causing him to fall. (Knowles 60). This proves that Gene’s jealousy towards Finny makes him not able to tolerate his actions, thus causing his hatred towards Finny, was the cause of this hate.
To answer Leeza’s question: I really do not think Gene’s character would have lasted in the Lord of the Flies because if Gene cannot survive in a hostile with adults around and without being hurtful or being jealous. This shows that Gene would not be able to stay on an island with only boys and no adults also because its impossible for him to do such a thing.
My question: What do you think would happen if Gene and Finny switched characters/roles in the novel?
In the given quote it is said that, "it is not love of self, but hatred of self which is the root of the troubles that afflict our world". This specific part of the quote relates to Gene's role in the novel. Gene doesn't hate himself, nor does he hate Finny. Although, he never went to fight in the war going on at the time, Gene was on "actice duty all [his] time at school" (Knowles 204). Internally there was conflict between Gene and himself, which caused him to ultimately kill his friend. Subconciously there was jealousy of Finny deep down inside of Gene. He wasn't as athletic as Finny, so he destroyed him. Academically Gene succeeded to compete with Finny. He seems not to realize all of the commotion he is causing. The answer to Sima's question is, the theme of the story would be switched. It would basically say sin can be pardoned if commited and it would say man is inherently good. There wouldn't be much of a difference besides the names.
My question is: How different would the novel have been if after Finny's fall, Briner would have truely exposed the truth and people believed it?
The remarkable thing is that we really love our neighbor as ourselves:
We do unto others as we do unto ourselves. We hate others when we
hate ourselves. We are tolerant toward others when we tolerate our-
selves. We forgive others when we forgive ourselves. It is not love
of self but hatred of self which is at the root of the troubles that afflict
our world.
--Eric Hoffer
The quote from Eric Hoffer applies to the world around us and A Separate Peace by connecting love with hate. If we hate others, as a result we will hate ourselves. However, if we tolerate others, we can tolerate ourselves, and if we forgive each other we can forgive ourselves. To summarize his quote, we need to get things right with others so we can get things right with ourselves. Gene hated Phineas, likewise he hated himself, because in his jealousy with Phineas, he kills him causing Gene to hate himself.
To answer Sima P’s Question: I think that if Gene switched places with Phineas in the novel, Gene would have been exciting person with a lot of virtue, whereas Phineas would have been lost and very critical with his habit of judging people’s personalities. Gene would not have tried to kill Phineas instead he would have been the more athletic one that Phineas would hate.
The poem Love Thy Neighbor applies to A Separate Peace due to the contentious actions that Gene has with in. As Gene didn’t know who he was as a person, and Finny obviously did, Gene grew to hate the person he was, flourishing envy towards Finny."[Gene] hate[s] [Finny] when [he] hate[s] [himself]",(Hoffer) causing Gene's "misery [to become] too deep to [mention], breaking Gene down as a person(Knowles 53). He doesn’t know his identity, as he has been living through Finny most of his time at Devon. This poem can relate to the world around us, as it explains why humans are the way they are, and why we act a certain way. In which relating to this poem is explains how humans have to love, forgive, hate ect., themselves first in order to show emotion towards others.
In response to Amber Brooks:
The novel would have changed if Finny knew the truth about the fall internally for Gene, for after the relization that Finny was mad at him, Gene would have discovered the kind of person he truly was, due to that detachment of Finny. As in relation to Finny, himself being the Christ figure I think it would just had been one of thoes beytrayals that Simon-Peter did to Jesus.
My Question:
Why do you think that we have to feel things emotionaly and feel the same way about those around us? Such as in the poem, "We hate others when we hate ourselfs"(Hoffer).
In Eric Hoffer’s quotation, it explains the idea that our neighbor could be our closest factor which distorts our emotions and vision. Our relationship with them, therefore, affects our views and existence of life; as well, it can affect our personality, attitude, and thoughts. Hoffer mentions that “[we] are tolerant toward others” and at the same time “we tolerate ourselves,” which conveys a mental conception that how we are treated is linked to how we treat ourselves. In A Separate Peace by John Knowles, the main character, Gene, is seen as obviously jealous of his best friend and roommate Finny. He still envies him and although they both respect each other fully, they have a high regard for each other equally, but in different aspects. Gene naturally admires Finny’s positive attitude, athleticism and handsome looks, but his admiration becomes so uncontrollable that it turns into envy. Gene becomes so livid that he causes the death of his best friend, thus metaphorically his own. As he watched Finny be “lowered into his family’s strait-laced burial ground outside [he] could not escape a feeling that this was [his] own funeral” (Knowles 194), displaying the concept which Hoffer presents in his quotation.
To answer Leeza’s question, I believe that Gene’s character would last in William Golding’s novel The Lord of the Flies. In LOTF, the boys on the island become savage and filled with anger, for Gene demonstrated his anger when he shook the tree branch from which Finny fell and broke his leg. Gene’s either conscious or unconscious act of hatred proved that he was capable of destroying those who are greater around him, and therefore he would be able to survive on the malevolent island.
My question is this- why does mankind take their feelings out on others?
I believe the last sentence of the quote applies most directly to "A Separate Peace." By saying "it is... hatred of self which is at the root of the troubles that afflict our world," it may be a stretch to connect but Gene seems to come to terms with his self hatred from beginning to end in the story. At first he is jealous of Finny so he lashes out towards him, but then the aggression grows stronger and stronger. As Gene looks back at his years at Devon and the conflicts he caused he may not exactly hate himself but he seems to feel hate towards himself for his wrong-doing.When Gene revisits Devon in the beginning of the novel he is reminiscing. He notes that a “tree was not only stripped by the cold season, it seemed weary from age, enfeebled, dry. [he] was thankful, very thankful that [he] had seen it." (Knowles 6) This tree can easily symbolize Gene himself as he now no longer creates fury against his friends symbolizing what he is "stripped" of; The cold season being the fury and conflict he created. "Weary," "enfeebled," and "dry" are the emotional repercussions of his indecency. He was grateful that even though it was years later he realized his actions and self-destruction because now that he is aware of it he can recognize it for the future.
To answer Maryann W.'s question:
Finny has a reason and a basis for all his actions and logic and is accepting of everything he does until he lets himself down. He, in turn, accepts others until they let him down, a great example of this is his relationship with Gene. Gene, on the other hand, blames his neighbor before he blames himself. He is more judgmental and conceded than Finny.
My question is not exactly a question but: Give examples of other characters in the story that can relate to this quote and explain how they relate.
When we look at this quote we see that it describes the kind of relationship that Gene and Phineas had. Phineas did unto Gene as he would to himself by getting him involved in many activities. One example of this could be the Super Suicide Society of the Summer Session. Phineas really involved Gene more than himself, and Phineas really wanted to be nice to Gene and not leave him out. Another thing that came to my attention was the part where it said we forgive others when we forgive ourselves. When you think about it Gene never really forgave himself therefore showing that all those times he said, "I'm sorry," really didn't mean anything. The reason for this is because Gene still came back to the school in the beginning of the book showing he never really forgave himself, but instead compressed those feelings and bottled them up. To relate this to the world, turn your attention to the last sentence of the quote. The "hatred of self"(Hoffer) is the main reason that most conflicts in the world arise. People tend to gain that anger feeling when something happens and they tend to express that hatred by taking it out on someone. This is a reason why these problems occur because of people themselves.
In Response to Alyssa T:
I don't think that "Lord of the Flies" can relate to "A Separate Peace" because in LOTF, the hatred towards one another is more ferocious than that in A Separate Peace due to the circumstances that apply to "Lord of the Flies."
My Question:
How does this quote apply to our daily lives? Explain your reasoning and elaborate your answer by using examples in your life.
"Love Thy Neighbor" applies to A Separate Peace because it illustrates the relationship of Gene and Phineas. Gene's hate for Phineas begins when Gene begins to grow jealous of Phineas. Gene is angry at himself for not being as good as Phineas and takes out his anger on Finny by making himself believe that Finny is trying to bring him down. As soon as he realizes that this is not the case, he 'forgives' Finny and they once again become friends. This applies to the real world because as humans, when we're mad at ourselves, we're mad at everyone else; "We do unto others as we do unto ourselves" (Hoffer).
In response to Haley: Our views of the characters would be vastly different. If we viewed it through Leper's eyes, we would see Gene as a selfish boy with no remorse for hurting Finny.
Question: What do you think would have happened if Finny knocked Gene off the branch? How would Gene have reacted?
I do not think that this quote applies positively to the novel and i don't think that it applies to Gene's situation within A Separate Peace. I think the opposite is true. This assertion is made because it is seen that in Gene's situation with Finny, he is almost always selfish in terms that whilst he is competing with Finny and his inner struggles, Finny is always the one at peace whilst Gene is going back and forth between his jealousy of Finny and his hatred of Finny, despite them being best friends. Finny takes the exact opposite approach and has a very positive outlook on life: he believes in true friendship and it is not apparent in the novel that he dislikes anything or anyone. For example, Gene believes that "Finny ha[s] deliberately set out to wreck [his] studies" because Gene is so selfish as to be unable to realize that Finny's sports and meetings of the Super Suicide Society are not detrimental to Finny means at all (Knowles 53). Gene's selfishness distracts him from being at harmony with Finny, because Finny s the peaceful one in this situation, while Gene is literally left fuming in a corner while he is studying. For support, it is seen that Gene's selfish nature is revealed through his narration of only in his perspective and him believing that the "Devon school [comes] into existence the day [he] enter[s] it... and blink[s] out like a candle the day [he leaves]"(Knowles 9).
Answer to Chanel's Question: mankind, or man, takes their feelings out upon others because generally the men that do this are insecure on the inside and don't know themselves well enough to realize that they are actually the problem, and are not strong enough to accept the consequence of what they do and how they live their live. thus, man pins their wrongs, or rights and lack of rights, upon other men to escape the vexation of being the one at fault.
My Question: if mankind truly is dependent upon each other to be their-selves, then how is it possible that narcissistic people experience these symbiotic relationships as defined by Hoffer's quotation?
Love Thy Nieghbor applies to A Separate Peace and the real world because it proves how our thoughts, moods and attitudes that are directed towards ourselves are actually directed towards ourselves and our neighbors. In A Separate Peace, Gene is the perfectionist while Phineas is more laid back. So when the inccident in chapeter 4 happens, Gene believes that Finny has ruined his chances of becoming valecdictorian by distracting him with unimportant things, Gene is in so much misery that he begins to lose love for himself.Soon after, Gene begins to point out how Phineas has hated and resented him from the start, which starts his hatred toward Finny.This explains the line of the poem that says "we hate others when we hate ourselves". So basiclly when we're having a bad day or things important to us just are not going right , we tend to beat ourselves up about it , then pick reasons to be angry at our neighbor.It applies to the real world for example when two good friends are arguing and they both have done something wrong to the other person. One friend wont forgive the other of their wrong doings before they forgive themselves.
In response to Chritina Zamara:
When things are going wrong for people, any extra problem no matter how bad makes our feelings even worse. But mostly, because sometimes the only way to feel a little better is by blaming all your problems on someone else or just taking it out someone.
My question is:
Why is Phineas almost immortal to Gene when he says "Only Phineas was never afraid,only Phineas never hated anyone"?
The quote "Love Thy Neighbor" has great significance to the novel "A Seperate Peace" and to the world surrounding us. In the novel, Gene has a close relationship with Finny. When Finny told Gene that "if [he] can’t play sports" Gene would have to play them for him (Knowles 77). Because Finny is not able to play sports, Gene makes the decision to not participate in sports either in order to feel the pain of Finny. This quote has a great relationship to the outside world by the Bible. In the Bible, Jesus tells us all to love thy neighbor as thy self. This relates to the novel and the world as a great moral and standard of living that has a great meaning beyond the author's thoughts.
To answer Judy M., if the story was from a women point-of-view, the story may have been more of a realistic and emotional type of experince with more events and a higher climax than Finny falling off a tree.
My question is do you have a friendship that is close or similar to Gene's and Finny's that is not to the exterme of Gene's actions. What makes your friendship this way? Compare it to Gene's and Finny's friendship.
Eric Hoffer's quote relates to Gene and Finny's relationship in A Seperate Peace. Gene believes that Finny "deliberately [sets] out to wreck [his] studies becuase inside he is jealous of Finny and creates a competition between the two of them (Knowles 53). As Gene's jealousy increases, he developes a subconscious hatred toward himself and Finny. Gene "[jounces] the limb" and causes Finny to "hit the bank with a sickening, unnatural thud" as an effect of this hatred (Knowles 60). The unfortunate events that occur after Finny's legs are broken relates to the line "It is not love of self but hatred of self which is at the root of the troubles that afflict our world" from Eric Hoffer's quotation because Gene develops guilt and hatred toward himself after he hurts Finny.
In response to Anthony E:
If Finny had caused Gene to fall oof the tree, I believe that Gene wouldn't have forgiven Finny once he found out the truth because he was not the Christ-like figure that Finny was.
My question is:
How does Eric Hoffer's quote relate to Lord of the Flies?
Eric Hoffer’s quote applies to A Separate Peace through Gene and Finny’s interdependent relationship. Gene and Finny have intertwining identities, which leads to Gene projecting his emotions onto Finny. For example, Gene honestly does not want to be Gene; he would much rather become Phineas. His insecurity and hatred of himself shows when he begins to think “Finny… deliberately set out to wreck [his] studies” (Knowles 44). He believes there is a “deadly rivalry” between him and Finny because they are currently “even after all, even in enmity” (Knowles 46). Gene doesn’t love himself; therefore, he doesn’t love his neighbor, Finny. Also, referring to “[i]t is not love of self but hatred of self which is at the root of the troubles that afflict our world” (Hoffer), because Gene hates himself, he hates Finny, which causes him to move the tree limb, which results in Finny shattering his leg. This event, later on, is what causes Finny to die and causes Gene to lose a part of himself.
This quote applies to the world through many people’s actions. High school society is a wonderful and relatable example. When a person is bullied, look to the bully; they are usually mistreated and feel low about themselves. They then go to school and mistreat others. Girls that fight amongst each other for the best clothes, hair, and boys are usually looking for self-esteem boosts. When a girl steals another’s significant, it is so that the boyfriend stealer can feel more powerful over another, therefore feeling that they have high self-esteem.
In response to Judy M.’s question, I think if A Separate Peace was written from a female’s point of view, the rivalry between Gene and Finny would be many times multiplied because of female’s catty nature. I also think the story would be more emotional.
My question: Do you agree with Eric Hoffer? Why or why not?
Love thy neighbor as thyself compares to A Seperate Peace by stating how we only love another when we can love ourselves. Gene always compared himself to Finny as Gene not being as honorable as Finny. He even clearly stated that he was envious of the way Finny could talk his wayout of things. Gene started to hate Finny when he broke the swimming record and Finny hated Gene because he had straight a's in every subject. They could only love eachother when they had something to love about themselves.
In Response:
yes, i agree with eric hoffer because we can only teach ourselves to love another through loving ourselves. We would need practice in learning to love.
My question:
Do you think that if Finny had a different personality that Gene would still be jealous of him?
The idea of loving your neighbor as yourself is portrayed throughout the novel in a retrospective way, such as in the quote by Hoffer. This quote could really be a direct thought from Gene because it portrays his way of thinking quite accurately. This is displayed through the acts of everyone, “except Phineas, construct[ing]… these Maginot Lines against [the] enemy” (Knowles 204). This quote proves the existence of boundaries everyone builds against everyone else in order to protect themselves. By doing this, they also put a boundary on their potential self – “We do unto others as we do unto ourselves” (Hoffer 1). We all affect each other, through that is how we grow, learn, and furthermore become the person we were made to be. Without the removal of those Maginot Lines, we would be trapped in a safe, trustless bubble. We would never let anyone in, or let anything out. Therefore, we love our neighbors as ourselves by refusing to remove these Maginot Lines.
In response to Jane’s question: Phineas, being the respectable and logical person he is, would have respected that he told him first off. Although he might be angry with him for a while, it would end up not blowing up to such huge proportions because Gene would have done the right thing in the first place, and no one can criticize him for that.
My question: Do you think Gene could have handled going into the actual battlefront of World War II after creating his own war at Devon? Why or why not?
Love thy neighbor as thyself applies to A seperate peace in Gene's and Phineas' relationship.As Eric Hoffer says "we hate our neighbour when we hate ourselves". this applies to Gene beacause he hates himself when he feels that Phineas is good at everything - in sports and escaping out of trouble, but he himself is not.when Gene realizes that Phineas is not envious of him, he feels that "[He] is not of the same quality as[phineas]"(Knowles,59)."[Gene]could not stand this" realization(Knowles,59).This envious feeling of gene resulted in Phineas falling from the tree and breking his leg.Gene had an "unthinking sureness" with "every trace of [his] fear of this forgotten", when he jumped off the tree. This shows that Gene was satisfied when he saw Phineas fall, and that ended his hatred for himself, since the one person better at everything than he is has been hurt now.Therefore, Gene could not love Phineas since he hated himself for not being equal to Phineas.
In response to Leeza W.'s question: I think Gene's character would have lasted in the Lord of the flies because everyone who got killed,like Simon and Piggy, had a good nature. And everyone who survived had a bad and evil nature like Jack and Roger.Ralph, who had a good nature, would have been killed by Jack if the police officer had not come to his rescue.Gene's nature fits in with Jack's, so he would have survived.
my question: How are some themes of A Seperate peace similar to the themes in Lord of the Flies.
Inresponce to Question:
"Love thy neighbor" is the base of A Separate Peace and to the world around us. Hoofer states that "We are tolerant towards others when we tolerate ourselves" (Hoffer), which relates to Gene's feelings toward many of the other characters throughout the book. In the beginning of the book, Finny's successful skills in sports make Gene feel a sense of envy towards Finny. When Gene could no longer tolerate the envy that he had grown towards Finny, he "jounced the limb" that Finny was standing on (Knowles 60), causing him to fall and critically injure himself. The envy that Gene had towards Finny makes him not only unable to tolerate his jealousy, but also unable to tolerate anyone else. Another part of the Hoofer quote that relates to A Separate Peace is when he said "It is not love of self but hatred of self which is at the root of the troubles that afflict our world" (Hoffer). Gene's conflicts and self pity are what cause so many things to go wrong at Devon, including Finny's death. If Gene had not had these feeling inside himself, many of these conflicts could have been avoided. Hoffer's quote can relate to the world around us, as it explains why humans cause wars and conflicts. If it were not for inner conflict, wars and hatred would not be evident in our world.
In response to Nazareth's question:
Gene does feel some remorse for what he did to Finny. On the otherhand, he doesn't fully regret what he did. Throughout the book, he continuously tries to convince himself that what he did was alright, although he truly committed an act of evil in order to delete his competition. If Gene were only able to understand that there was no competition between him and Finny, he would regret what he did more.
My Question:
How does this quote apply to Lord of the Flies? Does it have any relations with the characters from Lord of the Flies? If so, explain the relations.
This quote applies to a separate peace in that it suggests that the real wars and strife in the world are truly inside ourselves. This is not necessarily true, however. To hate someone else, it is not really a hatred of ourselves. Sure, in Gene's situation, this was almost the case. He had so much conflict and "misery [...] too deep to [mention], in himself that it ultimately causes him to kill Finny, but it was not hatred of himself(Knowles 53). As humans we are individual biological entities of life, and are not in any way connected that severely to our brethren. To execute tolerance and forgiveness, it is not necessary to do so for ourselves. In our mindset, however, humans always think of themselves first. So our own conflicts are always resolved before anything else. However, this does not indicate that we are all a together in actions and emotions.
To answer Chanel's question: It's not that we take our emotions out on the rest of mankind, it's just that sometimes we find the pain of conflict too much to keep inside. It boils over, and spreads like a disease, so it may seem intentional, but it is not.
My question is: If someone made you mad, why would you forgive them only when you forgive yourself? Why do we need to forgive ourselves if we didn't even do anything? It forgiving ourselves even necessary as this quote so pointedly proposes?
"Love Thy Neighbor" by Eric Hoffer is related to Separate Peace because of the similarities between the motifs such as forgiveness, conflict, hatred, love, and tolerance. "We do unto others as we do unto ourselves. We hate others when we hate ourselves"(Hoffer 2)Hoffer and Knowles both concentrate on the morals of life in their writing which influence the theme. Gene is at adolescence which makes him vulnerable for emotions to take over him. Gene's capability of moving into maturity faster and easier than Finny caused Gene to literally remain alive. This tells us that if one doesn't lose innocence, he/she is vulnerable to harm.
In Response to Sima P: If they had switched roles, the theme would probably be switched as well. The problem of losing innocence would probably be less significant as well.
My Question: In "A Separate Peace" by John Knowles, the loss of innocence is seen many times. Why is this motif so important?
In A Seperate Peace this resembles the part in the book when Finny falls from the tree, as Gene deliberately watches it happen, purposely not helping it from happening. Gene has thoughts of Finny at the tree when he "[balanced] on one foot", how Finny's body was "a complex set of balances and compansations, each muscle aligned in perfection", and how he "tanscended gravity and might by gently pushing upward with his foot glide" as if he were "encompassing all the glory of the summer and offering it to the sky" (Knowles 75). In addition to the technical details Gene put into Finny, comes to show that he is a little obsessed with Finny to the point where he wants to be him. Gene is so tired of himself that when Finny fell out of the tree broke his leg, he realized that Finny would no longer be the number one, so he could be number one, and though he didn't want to admit it, he felt that deep inside. Dissimulating that Gene hated himself therefore he hated Finny. In our perspective, whatever we put on ourselves is what we put on to others, we could be having a bad day, therefore we would act grouchy and aggressive towards others, if were in the most joyous mood we would act graciously towards others, greeting them in a ecstatic vibrate tone. We treat others the way we feel.
Answer to recent question: Gene and Finny differ by the statement love thyself as thy neighbor, in the way that Gene doesn't seem to love himself, but he still feels a secret kind of love for Finny after all thats happened.
Question: What kind of message is this quote by Eric Hoffer and the things that happened in A Sepearate Peace trying to send to us?
Love Thy Neighbor by Eric Hoffer realates to the novel A Separate Peace. For example, "Studying! You know, books. Work. Examinations" (Knowles 57). This quote shows that Gene gets stressed by school. "We watch a little lily- liver Lepellier not jump from the tree, and I ruin my grade" (Knowles 57). Gene gets mad at Finny because he thinks he is trying to distract him from his school work. As a result, Gene pushes Finny off the tree because he believes that Finny doesn't want to " be even" with him (Knowles 52). Finny is good at sports, gets away with anything, and has a positive attude toward life. These qualities makes Gene jealous which also contribute to why Gene pushes Finny off the tree.
Love Thy Neighbor applies to the world because when we get angry we sometimes take it out on each other without knowing it.
In response to Anthony E. if Finny knocked Gene off the branch he wouldn't be so nice and forgiving about it. If Finny confessed to Gene that he pushed him off, Gene probably would have believed him, unlike how Finny didn't want to believe that Gene pushed him off the branch. Gene would have probably told everone what happened instead of trying to keep it a secret. Also, he probably wouldn't still be friends with Finny after what happened.
My question:
In the novel when does Finny apply to Love Thy Neighbor?
In other words, when does he forgive others when he forgives himself, or when is he tolerant to others when he's tolerant to himself, etc.
In A Seperate Peace Gene definately shows this idea of people loving themsleves like their neighboor because as Gene sees how great Phineas is, Gene becomes more jealous and mad ar himself more than anyone else. He uses Finny as an outlet and forces Finny out of the tree. Gene's real anger is within himself because he doesn't see himself to measure up to Phineas and then brings him down so that they "are on the same level". Gene has the need to be even with Phineas. As their summer classes went on "[Gene] tightened the discipline ..." and he "was more and more certainly becoming the best student in school;Phineas was without question the best athlete... but while [phineas] was a very poor student, [gene] was a pretty good athlete, and when eveything was thrown into the scales they would in the end tilt definately toward [gene]"(knowles 550). Even as Gene makes finny fall off the tree, he is not just abadoning finny but also a big part of himself proving that we do onto others as we do unto ourselves.
Answer to Patty:
Finny forives both gene and himself when gene finally confronts him before finny dies about how he fell from the tree. He forgives himself for being naive enough to think gene was a genuine good person but forgives gene of his awful sin.
My question;
why do you think that we as a society of people live this way with taking our frustrations out on others and harming others as we do to ourselves?
In the book A Separate Peace, Gene really doesn’t hate Finny. Gene has an admirational jealousy toward him, which is a direct result of Gene transitioning from the narcissistic phase to manhood. Gene always envied Finny for his “perfect” qualities. Gene couldn’t stand the fact that Finny could get away with everything, and he wanted that. In “Love Thy Neighbor,” Gene’s envy over Finny gradually turned into hatred towards Finny because Gene couldn’t stand to love himself anymore. He didn’t want to hate himself alone, and it was easier to hate Finny and try and avoid his hatred towards himself. Gene begins to realize that he really loved Finny and only hated himself, after the death of Finny. When Gene revisited the school to cleanse himself from the guilt of Finny’s death, Gene got a chance to reflect back on the past years he spent with Finny. This time of reflection helped Gene fully lose the narcissistic mentality and mature into a man. Gene finally “escaped from” the tight grip of guilt and forgave himself for his malicious actions and was able to finally love Finny for being Finny, and admitted how “Phineas was never afraid” and was truly his best friend.
To answer Leeza W’s question on if Gene would be able to survive in the LOTF setting, I think no. Gene is way too self-centered and he is for sure going to be one of the first “accidentally’ killed off of the island. Gene likes to have everything his way, and can’t really stand to have anyone take away his spotlight. If Gene wished anything evil towards the boys like the instance in which he wished Finny would get in trouble for using his tie as a belt, Gene is for sure dead.
My question is:
Gene states in Chapter Three that "Phineas always had a steady and formidable flow of usable energy" (Knowles 40). When this sort of energy is gone – say, long after the accident, when Finny stands with Gene outside the gym, catching his breath and balanced on crutches – does Gene still envy him?
I think that we take our fustrations out on other because we dont know how to deal with our selves. In the novel Gene could handle, or did not want to handle, the fact that Finny was better than him is sports. Also Gene was jealous of Finny beacause of his ability to be able to be cool, calm, and collective when Gene was yelling at him about his work. As a society I think that we tend to put or frustrations on others because we dont want deal with them. Also if it is a person that is frustrating us, we dont want to confront them because we dont know how they are going to respond.
Question: What is the turning point of Genes personality in the novel. How can you tell that this is his turning piont. Use textual evidence to support your answer.
Love Thy neighbor relates to A Separate Peace by comparing one’s love for a neighbor to Gene’s emotions toward Finny. Hoffer states that “we hate others when we hate ourselves”, this can be compared to how Gene feels when he injures Finny. Gene “lost part of [himself] to [Finny] then and a soaring sense of freedom revealed that this must have been [his] purpose from the first: to become a part of Phineas" (Knowles 77). Finny had never wanted to hurt Gene, he always had misunderstood him. Gene saw Finny as his enemy and as his target in his personal war. Another example of Gene showing his emotions for Finny was when he revisits Devon for the first time in 15 years. He does this to forgive himself and to move on with his life. . How this relates to other parts of the world is quite simple. We have bar-b-q and have parties together. During a time of need we help each other and become closer in the process.
To answer Alyssa’s question, no I do not think Love Thy Neighbor can relate to Lord of the Flies very well. I say this because the boys on the island don’t really help each other out very much. They all just try to survive at any cost and love themselves in the process.
My question is, do you believe that Love Thy Neighbor could compare any other characters in A Separate Peace beside Finny and Gene? Why or why not?
In A Separate Peace, Gene's internal conflicts are taken out on his best friend, Phineas. Gene is jealous of Phineas' excellence at sports, and he is worried that Phineas will soon pass him up in importance, since all Gene has to offer is his academics. This creates an internal conflict for Gene, as he tries harder in his studies. The real conflict, however, isn't the relationship between Gene and Phineas. It's Gene's insecurity with himself that causes him to push Finny off the tree. When Phineas died, Gene "could not escape a feeling that his was [his] own funeral, and you do not cry in that case" (Knowles 194). This implies that Gene had associated his internal conflicts with Phineas, in blaming it on him, and so when Phineas died it felt as if he had as well, because his personal conflict died with Phineas when he had nothing else to worry about.
In response to Jane's question: If Gene had told Phineas in the first place, I think Phineas would have had understanding for Gene, since he accepted everyone for who they were. He is, after all, the Christ figure in this novel. He would have no doubt been disappointed and shocked, but he would have forgiven him. The reason he didn't take it so well when Gene told him later on was because Gene had kept it from him for so long.
My question is:
What do you think Phineas' internal conflicts were? Do you even think he had any?
Love Thy Neighbor applies to A Separate Peace because, we can see the close relationship between Phineas and Gene. Before you can love anyone else you must love yourself, for example Gene doesn't love himself because he wants to be like Finny and be good in athletics. In a similar way Finny doesnt like Gene becuase he's smart and get straight A's in his classes. As Hoffer states, "we hate others when we hate ourselves" (Hoffer lines 3-5) this quote shows the emotions that Finny and Gene have towards eachother. Throughout the quotation each line represents the feelings of the two main characters and how they deal with them. I think this applies to the world as we grow into individuals beacause we all encounter certain factors in life which will be hard to overcome.
To answer Nikki J.'s question: I think the motif, loss of innocence, is used alot throught the book because the boys are constantly doing certain actions without thinking of the consequences.
My question:How do you think the story would have been if Finny was the narrator of the book? explain
According to Eric Hoffer, “it is not love of self but [rather] hatred of self which is the root of [all of one’s] troubles.” In A Separate Peace, Gene views himself and Phineas as one being. He displays that belief at Finny’s funeral when he doesn’t cry, because he “[has] a feeling that [it] was [his] own funeral and one doesn’t cry at their own funeral (Knowles 194). Because Gene sees himself and his friend as one, all of the anxiety and internal struggles Gene faces are directly reflected onto Finny. For example, throughout the novel Gene is jealous of Finny’s athletic achievements so he strives to become valedictorian, a title Finny could never achieve. Gene even continues to be jealous of his “altar ego” even after Finny’s death because notes that “Phineas never was afraid [and] never hated anyone”, showing that he really can’t break away from his relation and obsession of Phineas (Knowles 204). At the end of the novel, Gene comes to the realization that the boys he went to school with faced their internal enemies in war. He then realizes that he, “killed [his] enemy [at Devon]”, because in Gene’s mind his internal enemy was Phineas all along (Knowles 204).
In response to Regina: Had Phineas been the narrator of the book, I think that the story would have lacked emotional depth. Unlike Gene, who is a bit emotionally imbalanced, Finny appears to be a very average kind of guy. Also, the novel is really about Gene’s internal struggles to find his identity, so it wouldn’t make sense for anyone else to be narrating. Overall, Finny is too concerned with Finny to have truly captured all of the complex emotions that Gene captured at Devon during there time there.
Question: At the beginning of the novel Gene goes back to Devon for a symbolic “cleansing”, keeping this in mind, do you think that Gene can ever truly be “cleansed” of his past wrongs? Expand.
Love Thy Neighbor exemplifies Gene's actions towards Finny in A Separate Peace.The poem states that "we hate others as we hate ourselves" which explains Gene's disdain toward Finny in the begining of the book. Gene is jealous of Finny's innate athletic ability so he projects those negative feelings of jealousy at Finny. After Finny breaks his leg, Gene and Finny's friendship grows because he gets to live a part of Finny's life, which not only makes Gene haapy but also makes Gene more amicable towards Finny.This same principle correlates to our world because when people feel bad about themselves, they project those feelings onto the people around them.
In response to Ammar's question:
I think that "Love Thy Neighbor" could not be applied to any other character relationship because no other relationshipp in A Separate Peace was dictated, almost completly, by one person's feelings.
My Question:
How would the story be different if Finny showed any negative feelings?Explain?
"Love Thy Neighbor" relates to John Knowles's A Seperate Peace through Gene. His "neighbor", so to speak, is Phineas. He loves him as his best friend and stays tolerant of his christ-like qualities as he can. He forgives himself for what he did to Phineas after he returns to Devon and comes face to face with his reality. As he hates himself for not being able to live up to Phineas's lifestyle and perfection, he begins to hate Phineas for being better. It is when this hate for himself and his "neighbor" appears that the troubles begin, thus being Phineas's and death. When it comes to the world around us, we can't live without the influence of others and or "neighbors". Our interaction with others gives us the basis of human emotion; Love, Hate, Tolerance, Forgivness, and Fear.
In Answer to Margaret H: Yes, the novel would in fact be different if it was narrorated from Finny's point of view. He was completely oblivious (or at least in denial) to Gene's hated and jealousy for him and was a very posotive person. The novel would be much brighter and more comical.
My Question: Does this quotation relate at all to our previously read novel Lord of the Flies? If so, how?
In A Separate Peace, we discover that the main character, Gene, is not only fighting himself with internal battles, but also external battles against all his friends. This quote applies to the book as a whole because Gene progressively becomes more hateful towards Finny, and in turn, he has more hate for himself. When Hoffer says "We forgive others when we forgive ourselves", also applies to the book because in the end, Gene did forgive Finny. He wanted to with every inch of his body, but he never got to show him his forgiveness because it was too late. In turn, Gene couldn't forgive himself for killing Finny. Also, when Hoffer says "We hate others when we hate ourselves", this applies to when Gene is talking to Brinker about Finny, and how he chose him as a roomate ect. Gene "[Snaps]" his neck and shook off Brinkers hand, "[His] teeth set" (Knowles 89). Gene has such hate toward Brinker because internally he's hating himself for choosing Finny as a roomate, knowing he wouldn't be there for winter term. From my perspective, I know I do the exact same thing. When I'm mad at myself or another person, I take it out on everyone around me. Much like Gene did to all his friends.
To answer Katy's question, I DO think Finny had internal conflicts, he just didn't wear them on his sleeve like Gene did. I'm sure with a broken leg and not being able to play sports, he probably had lots of thoughts about college and what he was going to do for his future since all he had was sports. Also, he most likely had conflicts about his relationship with Gene at some points, like when Gene first tries to tell him that he pushed him out of the tree.
We talked about in class how Knowles wrote a novel much like A Separate Peace but with different characters. My question is, do you think the themes of the story would change if that novel had become famous, and not A Separate Peace? Why or why not?
Gene's inner conflict with himself which causes him to ultimately act out on Finny directly corresponds with Eric Hoffer's words. The clearest example would be on p. 62 when Gene tells Finny that it was he who was the cause of Finny's fall. However, Gene realizes that by explaining what he had done "was injuring him again... this could be an even deeper injury than what I had done before." Gene was unhappy with himself for hurting Finny the first time and discovers that "[he] really and definitely and knowingly [told] it to him after all" in order to hurt Finny morally. Hoffer's words are accurate here becuase Gene tells Finny that it was he who made Finny fall, which hurts Finny making Gene feel better because he himself feels bad about what he did. Hoff is also correct to imply his thought on the real world today because many people who are frustrated with their job, homework, families, and other things often take out their frustration or anger on the people near them. When people get promotions they often buy their family gifts or take them out to eat as well.
If Knowles wrote a book similar to A Seperate Peace I highly doubt that it would have very different themes because A Seperate Peace isnt about some kids school experience. It's about every human's inner conflict and their struggle to overcome their wrongdoings or problems.
My question is: Can Eric Hoffer's words be applied to any character from LOTF.
Tia Wettman, 6th Period
Brotherhood is a big part of A Separate Peace and the concepts in “Love Thy Neighbor” help show it. Finny and Gene share everything. This is shown in that Finny is constantly wearing Gene’s clothes and Gene does not mind. When Gene starts to feel resentment for Finny, things start to fall apart and Finny breaks his leg. After Finny becomes crippled, he tells Gene that he is going to pick up where Finny left off with sports. Finny stays cheerful and in good spirits, but Gene feels guilty and does not forgive himself for bouncing the branch. Gene starts to not be able to tolerate himself and he ends up not being able to tolerate anyone be Finny for a while. “Love Thy Neighbor” applies to the world because it is very true of the majority of the people there are. If someone hates who they are, they are bound to be grumpy and mope around insulting people to make them feel better about their problems. If someone loves who they are, they tend to be social and likeable. Positive people lead pleasant lives and downers normally end up not being very happy with their lives.
In Response to Leeza:
I believe that Gene would definitely been able to survive in Lord of the Flies. He goes with what other people want, so he would probably end up in Jack’s tribe and fit in nicely. He also can become violent, similar to the boys in LOTF. I would think that the story would not change much if Gene was there.
My Question:
What does Leper’s change of views about skiing represent and which line of “love thy neighbor” does it relate to best?
Love Thy Neighbor is an ambiguous message that has a worldly meaning and a literal meaning. In the world, love thy neighbor is a phrase that means that you should care for and respect your fellow human beings. In the novel, A Separate Peace, love thy neighbor refers to the lesson that Gene learns during his friendship with Phineas. In chapter 4, Gene infers that Phineas is distract him from his work. "Are you crazy? It's too late for that."(knowles 42). But then in the end of chapter 4, Gene realizes that he should have loved Phineas more and learns to love thy neighbor.
The answer to Maryann's question is that Phineas was sort of a self-proclaimed character who didn't abide by the rules, but Gene was an intellectual character that focused mostly on his studies.
My question is what is the significance of all the charaters in the novel to the theme of Love Thy Neighbor.
The quote is a large part of the events in a seperate peace. Gene hated finny cause he was better than him. So he hurt him. after he hurt finny he felt bad. He then felt he could not forgive himself until finny finally died. This is true for most people in the word they hate something because they are jealous of it and act badly towards it and sometimes feel bad later."Gene, on the desire to be Finny: "I lost part of myself to him then, and a soaring sense of freedom revealed that this must have been my purpose from the first: to become a part of Phineas" (77). Judy asked what would happen if a Seperate piece was written from a females point of view i think the book could have been the same but more emphasis on the feelings of the characters
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